Posted by paucku on Thu, Jun 02, 2022 - 12:51pm --- Updated: Jun 02 '22 - 12:57pm

Because how the thing are called shapes the way we think about them and how we use them I purpose Content Type to be renamed Content Workflow. I know that there are historical reasons to not do so but I will try to represent some argument at least to start thinking about it this way. 

I am using Backdrop CMS for a while and for some time I have come to the conclusion that Content Type is actually Content Workflow. It is a way to distribute content but not a structure of content. It is the way the content behave.

I will explain my particular useage of Content Type and will be happy to see if there are other people who might think like me.

I have an educational website where the content types are Post, Math, Science and History. I do not need different structure for every single content type. But in my particular example I need some difference in the behavior. I want:

  • every Math content to be published under example.com/math and to be maintained by "math team"
  • every Post content to be published under example.com/posts and to be maintained by "editors"
  • every History content to be published under example.com/history and to be maintained by "history team"
  • every Science content to be published under example.com/science and to be maintained by "science team"

I created separate Content Types to have customized behavior:

  • different URL pattern
  • different publishing options
  • [THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE] different permissions - I can have different teams for every single content type

The actual "content" is managed by Paragraphs. Every Conent Type has only one field (which I called "content") of a Paragrapgh Type. Inside the Paragraph Type it is a dynamic choice between Text, Image or Video which can be added indefinitely and in any order.

Now when I am writing this I consider to include in this "content" (which is Paragraph Type) cover image, teaser and tags.

This way when in future I need to add some other "content type" with the same structure but with different behavior I will add Content Type with only one field - this of my Paragraph Type - which hold everything I need as a structure.

Also if I want to change the structure of my content type I will only need to change it in one place - in the Paragraph Type.

 

I hope there will be somebody who finds this approach interesting and helpful.

 

Raicho Nikolov

Accepted answer

@

And now to write in response to questions posted by you.

1. I think everything you want to do on your site is achievable with existing tools, modules, taxonomy, views and setting up user roles and permissions. Even without Organic groups. It is a matter of ingenuity, test trials and experiments. In Backdrop, as in Drupal before, almost any functionality can be done in at least a few different ways.

2. I do not think that changing the name of Content types will help in any way to resolve the issues raised. The idea may be interesting, but not everything that is interesting is also useful.

One of the things I like about open source software is the preservation of tradition and continuity in the user interface. The accumulated knowledge of working with the system is gradually and smoothly upgraded, but not canceled.

An important reason I like Backdrop are the principles of her philosophy:

https://backdropcms.org/philosophy

Let me recall some of these principles:

• Intuitive user interfaces are more valuable than extensive flexibility. When options are presented in the user interface, they should be made as clear and concise as possible.

• Simplicity: Write code for the majority. Backdrop will aim to be easy to learn and build upon, even for those with a minimal amount of technical knowledge.

Let me recall an old principle: do not change what works well and how people are used to doing it.

Most helpful answers

@JDSaward,

@JDSaward,

Thanks for the kind words!

I am familiar with the problem with WordPress themes that impress customers.

I have been designing websites for 15-20 years and gradually realized that in order to do this well I have to follow my own style. The most important thing for me is that the site is easy to navigate and readable for visitors, I strive to make the site convenient for them and I do not care if I will impress the owner of the site with a colorful and unique extravagant design. The problem with WordPress themes is that they try to sell themselves to as many customers as possible and therefore want to impress the site owners of all kinds and have little interest in the convenience of site visitors and whether the content is optimized for search engines.

WordPress themes, even when they are really beautiful (and this is very rare, they are usually visually gaudy and annoying), almost without exception have extremely bloated code, which I do not like as a style of work and consider it to the be detriment of my customers, even if they do not realize it and are impressed by the stunning appearance of the theme.

Particularly intolerable (in terms of complex and bloated code) is when a block editor is included in the design development - and most modern WordPress themes do this - they just don't work without a block editor.

In these cases, I talk to the client and explain to him why choosing a beautiful and impressive ready-made theme for WordPress is not in his interest and is a bad choice for his site.

Sometimes they understand me, sometimes they don't - in the second case I just don't take the order - if they want a WordPress style theme, these are not my clients, somewhere there is someone to do their job, the market is full of WordPress agencies simply because most of them they are unable to develop original design.

I'm thinking about developing themes for a website and in particular for Backdrop by analogy with being a musician - to be a good musician you first have to practice a lot (not play playback, which is an analogy of using ready-made themes) and second and very important - to be a good musician is a must to have your own style. Which means you're willing to accept that there will be people who don't like your music or web design. Good design is therefore good because it is for connoisseurs. This way you earn less money, but you have much more pleasure from work :-)

Comments

Thu, Jun 02, 2022 - 6:36pm by stpaultim

@ - Interesting ideas, thanks for sharing your thoughts and workflow. 

You have not convinced me (yet) that Content Workflows would be a better name for Content Types, but I can see how it makes sense for you. 

While your example is not uncommon, I don't think it is the most common situation or use case. In my own experience, I mostly use different content types for different types of content with different fields AND different workflows. 

In situations like yours, I sometimes use a single Content Type and use a taxonomy field to categorize the content and handle it in different ways. However, in your specific situation with those specific needs (different paths and different permissions), I suspect that different content types are appropriate for each subject. But, this feels to me to be an unusual situation and not the norm.

The recently released Organic Groups module might also be a good solution for your use case, where you could use a single Content Type, but assign content to groups with different paths and permissions.

As usual with Backdrop, there are many different ways to solve every problem and the challenge can be to figure out which one is the best and most flexible for each specific situation.

I still like "Content Types."

Fri, Jun 03, 2022 - 10:19am by paucku

Great to hear that Organic Groups are ported to Backdrop :). I will surely check it for future projects.

I hope that there will be progress on Group module - https://github.com/backdrop-contrib/group. It is much simpler thatn Organic Groups. However, last time I tried it it broke my system.

Fri, Jun 03, 2022 - 3:11am by amilenkov

@Raicho Nikolov

Hello,

Raicho Nikolov is a Bulgarian name. Are you from Bulgaria? I will be happy to discuss creating a Bulgarian group of Backdrop CMS enthusiasts, including helping other Bulgarian users with translations of Backdrop CMS information into Bulgarian. And if there is such a group, I should join it.

Antony Milenkov

Sat, Jun 04, 2022 - 1:53am by amilenkov

Hello, I am very glad to find a Bulgarian countryman here.

Years ago there was a very active Bulgarian forum for Drupal, which closed after the appearance of Drupal 8. The address was www.drupal-bg.org. This forum was not created by me, but I knew and to this day I keep in touch with some of its organizers (Bulgarian programmers) - today they no longer work with Drupal at all. But I helped there a lot by actively participating in the forum as I answered questions from beginner Bulgarian developers with Drupal - 5, 6 and 7.

This was very useful for hundreds of Bulgarians because the communication on the site was only in Bulgarian, there was a forum and an extensive section with help information and online guides about using Drupal in Bulgarian.

I have been in the community and forum of Backdrop CMS almost from the very beginning (of Backdrop CMS) - since 2016. I am not a programmer, but a graphic and web designer, however I managed to make a modest contribution by working and embodying the correct rules for transliteration in Bulgarian in Backdrop CMS.

I'm sorry, but I don't use Facebook or Messenger, I don't use any other modern social networks - they degenerated into something completely different from what social networks were 10-15 years ago - in the direction of commercialization and political control, and also and a very low intellectual level of the majority of participants and the content. If you want to contact me, just write to abox@abv.bg.

Sun, Jun 05, 2022 - 11:32pm by paucku

Last year I found a Bulgarian website dedicated to Backdrop CMS: https://backdropcms.eu/

Now the contact page is nonexistent but I belive in the past I tracked it to this web design agency (which seems to be a one man shop): https://lulin.bg/

@amilenkov , I will send you an email to get in touch.

Mon, Jun 06, 2022 - 1:04am by amilenkov

Yes you are right, both websites are mine and I my business is one man shop. I work with an LTD company registered under Bulgarian law, but in practice I am a freelancer.

As for https://backdropcms.eu - I started doing it with a business plan, which I gradually realized was wrong. In short, since I have a long experience in developing custom themes for Drupal, I planned to find orders for custom themes for Backdrop CMS through this site.

However, experience has made me realize that Backdrop users don't need such services. This page demonstrates this:

https://backdropcms.org/showcase

First, Backdrop users are different from Wordpress users - those who have the potential to work with Backdrop have no problem customizing existing themes or making their own custom themes.

Second, the game has completely changed after the presence of the Layouts module in the Backdrop CMS and the availability of templates for almost all possible configurations of regions on the site in the main system. This cancels out one of the main reasons for making custom themes in Drupal - the need to construct custom regions to place the content of the site according to your own plan and design.

People who work with Backdrop as a rule have at least some knowledge of programming, and even modest knowledge in HTML and CSS is enough to manage the design of the site and they do not need ready-made custom themes, as users of Wordpress.

That is why I have currently suspended access to the site and have not yet decided whether to renew the domain at all or to redesign the site with a completely new concept.

One of my ideas is to make a website only in Bulgarian for non-commercial purposes - to help future users of Backdrop from Bulgaria. And if a community of Bulgarian users is created on Backdrop, I will readily hand over the management of the domain to this community.

But if something like this happens, I also bought the domain backdrop.bg, which could be used by an organized community with a non-profit goal - promoting Backdrop CMS in Bulgaria.

In such a scenario, I would wonder what to do with backdropcms.eu. Now I do not know, I hope time will show what is optimal.

Mon, Jun 06, 2022 - 1:22am by JDSaward

I like the thoughtfulness you display. However I do not agree that custom designed themes are not needed for Backdrop.

I have long experience with Drupal and with Backdrop CMS, and am capable of creating Backdrop themes, but, on a recent project I needed a theme with a higher level of unique visual design than I am capable of.

I googled around and could only find the contributed themes. I noticed there are not a lot of them. And my client wanted a theme more like what we find at Wordpress. I looked at porting one of the Wordpress contributed themes into Backdrop but just did not want to go there with my time. We've gone another way with that project, but, I would at times probably reach out to a specialist Backdrop CMS bespoke theme developer. And I think other professional backdrop engineers would also. Anyway, food for thought.

Good luck with your business plans, sounds like you are visionary.

Tue, Jun 07, 2022 - 2:27am by amilenkov

@JDSaward,

Thanks for the kind words!

I am familiar with the problem with WordPress themes that impress customers.

I have been designing websites for 15-20 years and gradually realized that in order to do this well I have to follow my own style. The most important thing for me is that the site is easy to navigate and readable for visitors, I strive to make the site convenient for them and I do not care if I will impress the owner of the site with a colorful and unique extravagant design. The problem with WordPress themes is that they try to sell themselves to as many customers as possible and therefore want to impress the site owners of all kinds and have little interest in the convenience of site visitors and whether the content is optimized for search engines.

WordPress themes, even when they are really beautiful (and this is very rare, they are usually visually gaudy and annoying), almost without exception have extremely bloated code, which I do not like as a style of work and consider it to the be detriment of my customers, even if they do not realize it and are impressed by the stunning appearance of the theme.

Particularly intolerable (in terms of complex and bloated code) is when a block editor is included in the design development - and most modern WordPress themes do this - they just don't work without a block editor.

In these cases, I talk to the client and explain to him why choosing a beautiful and impressive ready-made theme for WordPress is not in his interest and is a bad choice for his site.

Sometimes they understand me, sometimes they don't - in the second case I just don't take the order - if they want a WordPress style theme, these are not my clients, somewhere there is someone to do their job, the market is full of WordPress agencies simply because most of them they are unable to develop original design.

I'm thinking about developing themes for a website and in particular for Backdrop by analogy with being a musician - to be a good musician you first have to practice a lot (not play playback, which is an analogy of using ready-made themes) and second and very important - to be a good musician is a must to have your own style. Which means you're willing to accept that there will be people who don't like your music or web design. Good design is therefore good because it is for connoisseurs. This way you earn less money, but you have much more pleasure from work :-)

Thu, Jun 09, 2022 - 4:56am by JDSaward

amilenkov

 

I really like how you put it as if building sites is similar to being a musician. I find it so. I think of my work as art. I tend to attract a few clients who stick around for years. If I took the Wordpress path I'd need a new client every few weeks. Which would mean I'd have to be a marketer. And I am not. I'm the guy who gets backdrop CMS to talk with Filemaker.... ;) not the guy who creates more rollover effects. Yes, some clients disappear but the best ones remain.

Sat, Jun 04, 2022 - 3:07am by amilenkov

@

And now to write in response to questions posted by you.

1. I think everything you want to do on your site is achievable with existing tools, modules, taxonomy, views and setting up user roles and permissions. Even without Organic groups. It is a matter of ingenuity, test trials and experiments. In Backdrop, as in Drupal before, almost any functionality can be done in at least a few different ways.

2. I do not think that changing the name of Content types will help in any way to resolve the issues raised. The idea may be interesting, but not everything that is interesting is also useful.

One of the things I like about open source software is the preservation of tradition and continuity in the user interface. The accumulated knowledge of working with the system is gradually and smoothly upgraded, but not canceled.

An important reason I like Backdrop are the principles of her philosophy:

https://backdropcms.org/philosophy

Let me recall some of these principles:

• Intuitive user interfaces are more valuable than extensive flexibility. When options are presented in the user interface, they should be made as clear and concise as possible.

• Simplicity: Write code for the majority. Backdrop will aim to be easy to learn and build upon, even for those with a minimal amount of technical knowledge.

Let me recall an old principle: do not change what works well and how people are used to doing it.

Tue, Jun 14, 2022 - 3:28pm by paucku

I accept this answer because I really didn't expect "Content Type" to be changed. It is a concept so deeply integrated into Backdrop (and its Drupal past) that it doesn't make sense to be changed.

However, I sparked little discussion and found out that the effect I am searching for is achievable in another ways.

And last but not least, I see that there is a good helping community for Backdrop and I will definitely will come here again if I have questions.

Thank you to all that participated in the discussion.

Tue, Jun 14, 2022 - 3:20pm by paucku

I would like to say that although the discussion didn't go the way I intended, it was very fruitful because I've found a fellow Backdropian here in Bulgaria. We even had a meeting and hopefully will work together in future for promoting Backdrop CMS in Bulgaria.

Thank you, @amilenkov for connecting with me.